NLP Trainer Michael Beale Podcast
Michael runs NLP training company
PPI Business NLP, and sponsors
www.nlp.experts.org. He's interviewed by internet marketeer and Feldenkrais practitioner, Ryan Nagy.
(Please allow up to 2 minutes for the MP3 file to download)
http://www.nlp-expert.co.uk/NLP/Michael.mp3
Ryan : Hi there. My name is Ryan Nagy . I'm a Feldenkrais practitioner and Internet marketer in the United States who is also the creator of Feldenkrais podcasts. Today I am interviewing NLP trainer and business coach Michael Beale in the UK.
Michael is someone that I'd say has had a fairly dramatic impact on my work over the last seven or eight years, both through some personal coaching sessions that we've done and through a series of informal calls that we tend to have - where we speak about anything between NLP and Marketing, sales and all points in between.
So today I wanted a chance to interview Michael and to talk some more with him about what he's up to thees days. So welcome Michael.
Michael : Thank you very much Ryan.
Ryan : Would you briefly introduce yourself to our audience?
Michael :Yes, certainly. I'm, as you said, an NLP trainer and coach, and I specialise in training small groups of NLP people - normally from the UK but also from Europe, Eastern Europe and the Middle East. And normally fairly senior and senior business people. And for people that come on the courses, working in such small groups is actually quite a luxury - for some people it's exactly the right way to learn and to pick up NLP skills.
Ryan : So you're primarily doing NLP - I'm curious - What's your description of what NLP is?
Michael :I think that's a really good question - Top level, I look at it in two things. One is something that produces results in people, and secondly it moves people towards personal freedom. Really to me NLP is exploring what works, how particular behaviour gets results - with particular emphasis on how we think, how we change, and how we communicate with each other.
Ryan : Interesting, so finding people that are successful and finding out what they are doing so you can achieve that success yourself?
Michael : That's exactly right.
Ryan : Now I've gotten the impression that you've trained with a number of people - so could you tell us something about the people that you've trained with?
Michael :Yes - in anticipation of your question I wrote them down and found that it becomes rather a big list - I started my NLP life training with John Seymour, I did a practitioner and master practitioner - and then trained with Paul McKenna and Richard Bandler in London - I then moved over to the states where I did a series of courses with John LaValle and Richard - and then back to the UK and did a series with Kate Benson and Richard.
I then followed up with - I'm not sure if 'orgy' of NLP training is the right way to describe it - but I then did a batch with John Grinder, Steven Gilligan, Doug O'Brien, Jonathan Altfeld and a few others.
Ryan : I think that when I first met you, you were still training with Steven Gilligan - so did you take a couple of months and just do loads of training? Is that what you mean?
Michael : It was spaced out over two or three years, but I took the advantage of going to any particular training that I could do.
Ryan : So - there's a lot of different approaches out there these days - So what differentiates NLP from different related approaches? Or from other approaches? And I'm thinking about basically, what works in terms of experience - Not necessarily theory and that type of thing.
Michael :Well I think the first one relates to what you've just said. NLP is very much about experience, not theory. One of the most important things if you're doing an NLP course, and doing NLP, is that you go with whatever experience you're going through, and you judge the responses by what happens, not by what you think ought to happen.
There are many, many cases where I've thought about an NLP technique, and I've thought 'This is absolute nonsense', And then when, to my surprise, I've tried it and then found that it works.
So one of the things about NLP is, it's about throwing all of the theory and the books away, and working on what actually produces your results from real experience. So I think that's one of the most important things about NLP.
The second thing is that it's all about process rather than content. It's almost as if in working together with somebody, I let them deal with the content, so they go through whatever experiences they're having - and in some ways I don't care so much about the content of the experience that they're having, or what that experience is - I lead them through certain stages, a certain process that helps them use that experience and helps them get the results that they get.
So it's very much that two people working together make three because they're working together because they're concentrating on their content and what's important to them and I help by guiding them through a process which takes them to where they want to go.
Ryan : Very, very interesting. What is content then? So content would just be my particular memories? Or, how would you define that?
Michael I think that's right - it's the content of your particular experience. It's the fact that you've had a really strong experience doing something that you've really enjoyed and you've actually learned something from it - the actual pure detail from the experience is yours, - and in some ways I will never know what that is, but I will help you work with it.
Ryan : Ok. It sounds to me that you're making a fairly bold statement here You could work with me and not necessarily know the experience that I'm working with, but take me through a process to view it differently, thank about it differently - is it something of that nature?
Michael :That is correct. I'm not sure if that's particularly bold, I actually think that it's something that in most cases will produce much better results, because I'm not distracted by your experience. I keep on my process which is navigating the ship, and you deal with your journey, and explore your own content.
The other advantage of this is that I may be helping lead you in a particular direction, but because you're using the content - you'll use that content in the direction that will get the best results for you.
So you're actually selecting, and within that you will choose, what is exactly the right response, for you in your particular context. And you'll be far better at that then I am.
Ryan : Ok. It's been years since I've taken any official NLP training, and so I'm just curious - if you were to advise me or someone else who is about to attend an NLP training what would you suggest they paid attention to?
Michael : Well I think it builds on what we've just been talking about. When you go to an NLP course, do stuff. Just throw yourself in and find out what works for you. In fact, I'll add two things to that - find out what works for you, don't have any preconceptions, because sometimes that things that you'll find maybe the most uncomfortable or the things that you find more difficult are the stuff that enables you to learn the most. So have an open mind - if it doesn't work that's fine, but don't pre-judge anything.
The other thing that's quite important, and I'll tell you a little story on this. Sometimes with the best NLP trainings, you'll find that the learning might come out minutes, days, months later. It's not what you think about the NLP course that's important it's what actually happens to you later.
A little story of mine is when I did NHR with Richard Bandler in Edinburgh, I was one of those people pulled up on stage and I had some current problem with my boss at the time.
And it's great fun when you're up on stage and asked rather strange questions and you've got fifty or sixty people listening to you - because that puts you in a rather strange state to start with. But I actually found that I brought up this thing that I had an issue with my boss much to my absolute surprise and to some extent amazement, when I got back into the workplace my issue with that particular boss had gone and we actually got on very well.
Now I don't know - There's a few bits in my brain that say 'Now that can't possibly be the NLP intervention at the time,' but also it's kept my mind open that some of this stuff works at a far deeper level then we sometimes understand.
So really what I'm saying is keep an open mind - don't close off the possibilities that you may get some really useful changes from doing this stuff.
Ryan : As a Feldenkrais practitioner I've had all these different experiences, moving experiences, learning experiences and training, and I found myself ten years ago getting done with the training and having to develop my skills, and I would imagine NLP is the same way that it can be really complex and it can be behavioural in a sense. So when someone has just finished an NLP course, how would you suggest that they develop their skills?
Michael : Again I think that's a really good question. And I would almost split in into two different chunks. There are somethings a little like learning to walk, when you learn to walk, once you've learned you don't have to re-learn it because the learning is in with you for all time. And some of the stuff that you pick up in an NLP course you will generally start putting it into practice almost with no conscious thought afterwards. So some of the stuff you don't have to over do.
But there are some bits that are worth just continually practicing. Because it's only by continually practicing and noticing the results that you'll get that you'll begin doing it intuitively in the future. So my view is trust yourself, you'll surprise yourself by putting a lot of what you've learned into operation automatically - but in addition, pick out one or two small chunks and actually put your own plan of how you're going to put them into practice. And just continually do it until you embed it in yourself.
Ryan : So continual practice and having some sort of a plan.
Michael : That's right.
Ryan : I was actually fascinated by your idea that things will change and the person won't know about it. Because, again, getting back to the idea of doing those Feldenkrais sessions, I came back - and I know that I'm moving differently. My centre of gravity is different, I'm a little bit taller. There's something that's changed, but I could not pinpoint exactly what it is. It's not like I'm specifically moving different muscles in a different way, I just know things have changed.
So if you ha to choose an NLP person to work with, how would you know who to choose?
Michael : I've been thinking about that and I think it comes down to someone who is still learning. I think NLP is very much about being open. It is about being open to your experience by seeing what's actually happening, not what ought to happen, or what somebody else has told you would happen. But actually being open. And that to me is tied up with learning.
So I think that one of the most important things, if I was to get someone get somebody to work with me is to have somebody with an open mind and although was good, was still continually learning themselves.
Ryan : What's important to you in NLP for the future as it grows and changes?
Michael : I think when I started, I mentioned that NLP is party about producing results, it's something about personal freedom and I'll add to that, it's something about enjoying life - So it's about those three. For me the continuing of NLP is about results, its about freedom, it's about enjoying life to the full.
Ryan : Before I ask you about if there's any workshop or products that you want to plug and give people your contact details, I'm wondering - is there anything that you'd like to add or emphasise?
Michael : I think the only thing that I would like to add is, over the last three months I've been talking to people that have been doing NLP for five or ten years, many of them fairly senior people in business and I've recorded them on podcast for my experts forum - if anybody is interested in NLP do go and have a read because these are successful people, that have been using NLP as I say for five or ten years and their stories of how they use NLP I think are incredibly interesting and useful.
Ryan : And what's the url?
Michael : It's
www.nlp-experts.org
Ryan : Ok, and anything else that you'd like to plug?
Michael : Very, very briefly four things. I have got a newsletter that now goes out to over four thousand people - just over four thousand people. There's a forum that we've just talked about. I am lucky enough to resale most of Richard Bandler and other peoples stuff in the UK and I do run NLP trainings for small lumps of people. If you want to find out anything about that lot, either contact me directly, and you can get my details from the site that we've just mentioned
NLP Experts Forum.
Ryan : Ok great, so you've got the newsletter, the forum, DVDs (a few of which I've bought.) and some workshops coming up.
Michael :Absolutely correct.
Ryan : And Michael thanks for taking the time to talk with me today, I really appreciate it.
Ryan can be contacted from his website
www.ryannagy.com
Michael Beale NLP Podcast
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