Recruiting Sales People - Gary Palmer
Recruitment of Sales People - Discussion between NLP trainer Michael Beale and Sales Recruitment Specialist Gary Palmer, February 2008
Gary Palmer helps technology companies to grow by recruiting the best IT solutions salespeople. He provides search and selection services for technology companies who want to recruit IT solutions salespeople.
(Please allow 2 minutes for download of the MP3 file if you want to listen to the discussion)
http://www.nlp-expert.co.uk/sales/Gary.mp3
Michael : Good afternoon Gary. First of all I'd really like to thank you for taking part in this podcast, I am really looking forward to what you have to say.
Gary : Thanks very much for the opportunity. I run a company called Sixth Sense Recruitment and we specialising in finding people for technology companies,
Michael : And what experience do you have that makes you credible as a sales recruiter?
Gary : Well I guess it's the classic 'Poacher turned gamekeeper' as in, I over twenty years sold IT systems of varying sizes and descriptions - And if you like, I'm not placing people in jobs to do just that, So I would like to think that the credibility of being in that world and doing that type of job will give me more of an insight when it comes to selecting people on a clients behalf.
And the final thing I would say on that - that in a lot of cases I could do the jobs that I'm trying to fill.
Michael : Can you give us an idea of some of the companies and some of the contexts in which you've recruited people?
Gary : It really stretches from one extreme to the other, so on the upper end in terms of size, people like Xansa and Computer Associates - large global organisations, where it's all about volume and process and lots of HR involvement and so on.
And really as a recruiter you're a piece of a much larger jigsaw - and the clients got a pretty good idea of what they need and how we're going to go about managing the various candidates through the process - until they make an appointment.
At the other end I work with privately owned software companies where they making their first sales hire through A-listed companies where they're in that kind of growth spurt, and trying to deliver the numbers they're looking for in order to expand the business and so on,
And really the difference between these small to medium size companies and the corporates are that they often don't have any HR function, and if they do it's minimal. So there's a lot more dependency on the sales director or the MD, to do the recruitment as well as their day job. And one of the challenges that that brings is it's not always a fully formed view as to what they need. They just need some more profit, and some more sales, where they've got to get someone in, when they're not always in possession of what that means - so there's a valuable contribution to be made there, a bit of consulting and helping them to define what they need.
Michael :That leads nicely onto the next question. What do you think as a sales recruiter, do you add to your clients?
Gary : Well I think it's what I would describe as the stretching of the brief - So the brief that they may start off with, for example is 'we need someone to sell application software into financial services sector, ' - so rather than just taking that as red I'll say, 'when you say financial service sector do you mean UK, or do you mean Europe?' Do you mean investment banking, do you mean retail banking? Do you mean insurance? Do you mean the Lloyds market? Do you mean the general market?'
Just trying through a course of conversation and discussion to further refine the requirement and get them to really think and be clear about what they need. And this would go into all sorts of areas, for example, what their average transaction value is, and what their average sale cycle length is. All these things will dictate what kind of behaviours they will need from their salesperson.
From the outside it probably looks like a salesperson is a salesperson and that if they could sell, they could transform the markets fairly easily but that has proved to not be the case. So the devils in the detail is what I'm trying to say.
Michael : A question about the recruitment process - what as far as you're concerned, are the main elements in the successful recruitment process from your initial discussion with the client, to the right person successfully on board and producing results?
Gary : I think that there are two main aspects to that. The first one is that there's clarity about the brief and about the requirement and what's needed. And as I've touched on, to drill down into the main areas and make sure that everybody's clear about that.
And secondly, you can have clarity, but if it's not very realistic, it's not very helpful - so if they're expecting to get a list of attributes as long as your arm, for a budget that's ten K less than the market pays, then it's going to be a long fruitless search.
So it's about clarity, and it's about reality I suppose as well.
Those two things mean that that projects can be taken on with a degree of confidence that you can deliver.
Michael :So that kicks the process of - what are then some things that you do to get the right person?
Gary : So depending on my example earlier, of the corporate on one extreme and the small start-up at the other, it depends how mainstream the job is. If the clients of a larger organisation, they're going to be in a team of about twenty, selling the same products into either geography or a vertical sector - then actually there's probably quite a few people out there that could do that job if the timing and the opportunity was right.
If on the other hand you're looking for someone to sell an application to investment banks and you're looking for three years of experience with that and it happens to be in Germany, then you'll understand that's going to be a bit more difficult. So depending on how mainstream the role is or not will effect your search strategy.
So if it was, for want of a better word, a volume based approach, then you would use a combination of advertising and what I would describe as 'push methods', so you would push the information out there that you were looking for someone. Where as if it were more of a niche role in terms of skills or seniority or both, then you'd probably use more of a pull model where you'd be using your networks, your contacts, your referrals, and head-hunting, to actually go out and select that person.
So with the latter example you'd work much more closely with the client to understand who their competitors are, would they consider someone half a step removed from their direct sector, but had industry sector knowledge.
There's a hundred and one different ways to slice and dice it. But the devil's in the detail - the devil is always in the detail.
Michael : So you've sorted out the right spec for the person, you've gone out and found them - is there anything important about how you get the guy to settle in, or is it just a question of putting them in the company and getting them to work?
Gary : I guess the piece I've missed out is, once I've put the work in and found the candidate, it's up to me to do the pre-screening and, if you like, the qualification of the fit.
So what's that candidates aspirations? What are they looking for in their next role and all of those sorts of things?
Once we get to the point where me and the candidate agree that its a good fit, then we would put the details forward to the client, discuss with the client - and I would expect, well, about eighty to ninety per cent of the Cv's that I've put forward would lead to interview.
I'm not playing in any sense of the word, a numbers game. It's impossible to get it right one-hundred per cent of the time, partly because there's this shifting sand as far as the requirements are concerned, and you're dealing with people. But eighty to ninety per cent is the run rate of CV to interview.
Then when they're interviewed, clients typically want to see three people for a position. So presuming that they're just working with me, they'll put forward three, they'll shortlist two. They'll offer one, and that person will start. And I would - to answer your question about the settling in period - I would work closely in the period leading up to - and I would keep in contact periodically for the settling in period - baring in mind that these hires I'm working with are typically two to five interviews with various managers, and sometimes a battery of tests.
So by the time the hire actually takes place both sides have generally spend a lot of man hours pouring over it. And two and a half years in I haven't had anyone on the client or candidate side of it that's felt that they've made the wrong move.
Read full transcript:
Gary Palmer on recruiting IT sales people
Gary Palmer Interview - Recruiting sales people
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